tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post2276215509325466648..comments2024-03-14T03:16:23.482-05:00Comments on Everyone Needs Therapy: Single Jewish Female Seeks. . .therapydochttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-61695129648553665432010-06-09T14:29:06.632-05:002010-06-09T14:29:06.632-05:00SO right!SO right!therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-54958582653081434442010-06-09T10:01:13.201-05:002010-06-09T10:01:13.201-05:00I am not sure the "shidduch crisis" is r...I am not sure the "shidduch crisis" is real or not; however, what does contribute to it is the immature state of the average orthodox Jewish male that's in his 20's as well as very limited social interaction with the opposite gender.<br /><br />As for inter-denominational dating: if that is to occur, then you're working on two things at once: interpersonal/inter-gender relationship (a huge task for someone who's not accustomed talking to girls on a regular basis) as well as kiruv (getting the non-observant male to be more observant). Both tasks are pretty hard as they are, especially that the second one does not start with singing on Friday nights and cholent (traditional stew) during lunch on Shabbat (Jewish Sabbath). Instead, it starts at the most seemingly unpleasant aspects of orthodox Judaism: Kashrut (dietary laws), Niddah (laws of family purity), Shabbat (Sabbath), and soon to come: Dayschool Tuition.Critically Observant Jewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17281220943536673356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-85498582426612852472008-07-16T07:55:00.000-05:002008-07-16T07:55:00.000-05:00Right, Fam. With a large sample you surely increa...Right, Fam. With a large sample you surely increase the chances, especially if you stratify. <BR/><BR/>All I wanted to do was emphasize that not everyone is Jewish, despite what it seems like, it just seems we're ubiquitous, probably from media exposure.<BR/><BR/>Like this, a blog that can't help being a Jewish blog, even though the Israel Forum doesn't include it because it's not Jewish enough. So they said. Go figure. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, to continue the stream, you can take the blog out of the Jew, but you can't take the Jew out of the blog, meaning, I could quit blogging easier than I could leave out Jewish content.therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-74402756553759087172008-07-15T22:56:00.000-05:002008-07-15T22:56:00.000-05:00I wish to validate your main point, that tradition...I wish to validate your main point, that traditional Jewish observance encompasses a wide range of behavior and values which overlap with those of many others raised in Jewish homes. Therefore, participants in the mating pool should be able to reach out to a larger range of prospects, as long as they don't carry too narrow a list of pre-reqs.<BR/><BR/>Most estimates of the "Orthodox" population in North America are about double what you cited (somewhere between 1 and 1.5 million). Interestingly, that number has increased somewhat over the last 25 years, even though the total number of persons identified as Jewish remains the same.<BR/><BR/>A random sample of Americans would indeed include some Jews, if the sample were large enough, correct? (or am I missing some math here?)Familydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08621170596515266462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-80579898464711116402008-07-15T16:03:00.000-05:002008-07-15T16:03:00.000-05:00Hm.. I have to wonder why there's an imbalance of ...Hm.. I have to wonder why there's an imbalance of marriageable men and women. It seems like the numbers really should meet up (or close... there usually is a slight excess of females in any population (>50%), but the magnitude of imbalance should be small....)Midwife with a Knifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04309579302399381913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-57841403941046659672008-07-15T13:15:00.000-05:002008-07-15T13:15:00.000-05:00Anon, the Old Mighty reference is not a joke. In ...Anon, the Old Mighty reference is not a joke. In older posts I discuss that this is how my grandfather referred to the All Mighty, perhaps because he didn't know English well, or didn't understand our colloquialisms. Most people say All Mighty, even Jewish people. I'm the only one who uses this, although by now, perhaps others do, too. The power of the Internet.<BR/><BR/>I think you read it right, and I wrote it this way knowing that religious girls are not going to go out with men who haven't at least got it in mind to practice, at least to learn how to practice, their religion. In actuality, many people are raised in families in which people practice religion differently. But it's very hard with Judaism. Much of our religious practice is "family" practice. This is an action-based, not a prayer-based religion. People forget that, unfortunately, but prayer is just one of the actions, one of the things an observant person does with his or her time.therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-14802185681313214942008-07-15T13:03:00.000-05:002008-07-15T13:03:00.000-05:00I don't understand when you use "Old Mighty". At ...I don't understand when you use "Old Mighty". At first I thought it was some kind of joke. I always thought it was "All Mighty". Is this something I heard wrong? No joke, I don't get it. I was raised with out any religious instruction, so I learn as I read or ask.<BR/>And somehow I read what you wrote as the men would want to be more orthodox and not as two people practicing differently.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-75519671046202347242008-07-14T17:21:00.000-05:002008-07-14T17:21:00.000-05:00As a Christian, your post explained more to me abo...As a Christian, your post explained more to me about why someone I know wrote a book entitled "Two Jews Can Be A Mixed Marriage." Thanks...nashbabehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05854830457537986703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-41053974427476090792008-07-14T16:01:00.000-05:002008-07-14T16:01:00.000-05:00I propose that they they open themselves up to dat...<I>I propose that they they open themselves up to dating Jewish people who are not Orthodox. There are no laws against this.</I><BR/><BR/>It is a good idea, but it will be challenging.<BR/><BR/>I have a ton of friends who are BT and found it exceptionally hard to date FFBs because of parental pressure (from the FFBs).<BR/><BR/>I also have been told on the side by a couple of the guys that are BT that they intentionally dated other BTs.<BR/><BR/>Their reasons could be summed up as follows:<BR/><BR/>1) They thought that their backgrounds would be more similar and there would be less chance for strife.<BR/><BR/>2) Sex. They said that they wanted a wife who had some sexual experience and wouldn't be put off by their having some too.<BR/><BR/>Obviously that was watered down, but it kind of hit the high points as was expressed to me.Jack Steinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16625864271071630940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-21854762891451989022008-07-14T15:40:00.000-05:002008-07-14T15:40:00.000-05:00Sandy, No sarcasm intended, none delivered. It's ...Sandy, No sarcasm intended, none delivered. It's all in how one says something, and my patients know, as a rule, I'm not going to answer questions about my religion, my family, my hair, my make-up, my vacation, my breakfast, my sleeping habits, etc., UNLESS I see the therapeutic value in it for them. We're good, me and the patients, and they come back at all stages of life, which is why I could say, Call me.<BR/><BR/>This is my blog. I talk about my religion here. I would talk about Hinduism, or Buddhism, or Islam, or Catholicism if I knew enough to do that, too.<BR/><BR/>In the very beginning I identified myself here and told patients about the blog, so they could read the posts that I thought applied to them. When I could see the real value of sharing about things like me, I took the me, my name, off ENT. <BR/><BR/>Bottom line is that patients don't need to know how I stubbed my toe this morning or smashed my finger the other day(oh, that hurt). They might worry.therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-19578071735210752662008-07-14T15:23:00.000-05:002008-07-14T15:23:00.000-05:00Not THAT I'd watch.Not THAT I'd watch.therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-48963295180977766392008-07-14T15:18:00.000-05:002008-07-14T15:18:00.000-05:00"I'm not saying, by the way, that there's anything..."I'm not saying, by the way, that there's anything wrong with long skirts.<BR/><BR/>Years ago a patient who was terminating after several months of therapy for himself and his son.<BR/><BR/>He said, Therapydoc, what's with the long skirts?<BR/><BR/>I smiled and said, "It's been a pleasure, treating you and your son. Call me if you need me.""<BR/><BR/>OK, so he didn't ask in the most polite way, but I don't think he deserved a sarcastic response. Maybe he was interested in the orthodox jewish culture and that was his way of asking you about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-62265666253870996812008-07-14T14:56:00.000-05:002008-07-14T14:56:00.000-05:00I feel a reality TV show coming on... :o)I feel a reality TV show coming on... :o)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-11334097968727759422008-07-14T13:15:00.000-05:002008-07-14T13:15:00.000-05:00Christina, some of us just like this stuff, is all...Christina, some of us just like this stuff, is all.<BR/><BR/>Karen, it isn't that it's not workable, it's that people don't want to work it. So hard. So much compromise. And yet, so many have done this, like you, in some form or another, and they're together, and they're happy. So what's that say?<BR/><BR/>cb, I fear for the shlepping when those grandkids come around :)<BR/>But the UK's great. Who doesn't like royalty?therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-53688178568256668022008-07-14T12:43:00.000-05:002008-07-14T12:43:00.000-05:00I was really intrigued by your post because my son...I was really intrigued by your post because my son was attending a therapeutic school in perhaps the same Jewish neighborhood where you work. Let's face it, there aren't a slew of Jewish neighborhoods in Chicago.<BR/><BR/>The mix at this particular center was always an interesting one to me. Primarily Orthodox Jew, but open to all religious backgrounds. I took my younger son to a playgroup run by the school, and had the opportunity to speak with very many of the Orthodox moms there. I had no idea there was such a crisis with marriage. But obviously, we were the crew of married moms so it wasn't one of the issues.<BR/><BR/>What I did notice though is for how much talk there was around holiday food prep and children, it was nearly silent about marriage or even talking about the spouse. And the one time -- once -- when an Orthodox dad brought a kid to the group, all of the Orthodox women were whispering about him. Almost as though he was violating their territory somehow.<BR/><BR/>I've always been interested in Jewish culture, more so than the religion -- if you can separate the two. Once took a quiz on what religion my beliefs match with most, and Orthodox Jew was ranked above what I practice. So I very much appreciate your post and your insight!Christinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234047396656927675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-10129569992987785052008-07-14T12:19:00.000-05:002008-07-14T12:19:00.000-05:00I think the biggest challenge of your suggestion w...I think the biggest challenge of your suggestion will arise early in the dating relationship of this theoretical couple. The less religious man will want to touch and explore sexually, and the long skirted girl will have a serious problem with this. I don't think a "modern" Jewish man would be interested in pursuing a dating relationship with someone he cannot touch.<BR/><BR/>I am a fairly traditional "conservative" Jew who married an agnostic boy, raised in TX in the Reform movement. Let's just say he was "overly successful" at his promise to marry a Jewish woman. There is conflict in our house. There are dairy, meat and treif dishes. There is some fasting (me) and some not (him, although this past year he did fast for the first time in his life, and we've been married 15.5 years). The kids know who is where on the issue of religious observance. They observe kashrut. They go to day school (getting marital agreement on that was a lovely stressful process!). They come to shul with me (I think a lot of people at shul believe I am a single mom).<BR/><BR/>But we have Shabbat dinner every week. We recently traveled to another city and he was the one to go buy the kosher meat for us. A lot of our compromises are about shalom bayit to me. I know why he is my match, even and maybe because of his religious antagonism, and I am glad he is my partner. I wish that your solution would be workable, but I fear it is not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-51826527368253637532008-07-14T11:52:00.000-05:002008-07-14T11:52:00.000-05:00A good school friend of mine, despairing of the av...A good school friend of mine, despairing of the availability (or perhaps just the tediousness) of the best that British jewry had to offer, sought a mate in New York and has been married now very happily for 15 years :) I'm not sure that's necessarily a solution for all. I have to say that in some of my more lonely moments a good few years ago, I thought it all seemed so simple - one of my non-jewish friends even said to me that if I got that desperate (!) I had the option of feigning (or practising) orthodoxy to get an arranged marraige that would have made things much more simple! <BR/>I didn't and am happily attached with a partner who is at the same level (or non-level) of practise that I always had and was comfortable with. <BR/>I think I would not have been happy. And I'm saying that as someone that went to exclusively Jewish schools from the age of about 8. Perhaps my views are coloured by the experiences of my parents - one of whom (my mother) came from a much more observant family than my father - although both orthodox - the tensions were obvious and what one said wasn't necessarily the same as what the other said (or did!). My two sets of grandparents never really got along either as one side were concerned about the levels of observance of the other side.. <BR/>Perhaps if things are thrashed out really well it could work and certainly if a BT (I like that - I've never abbreviated it before!) is involved! <BR/><BR/>I still think the international option could be a solution.. everyone likes an element of the exotic :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-10260333234995467222008-07-14T10:38:00.000-05:002008-07-14T10:38:00.000-05:00I actually grew up in a family where my father was...I actually grew up in a family where my father was significantly more religious than my mother. It certainly created conflict.<BR/><BR/>If you could convince someone to give Orthodox Jewish young adults some therapy the way Birthright is getting handed out, I'd think it would help young marriages all around.Leorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12303493764579879710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-55546341726061885272008-07-14T10:26:00.000-05:002008-07-14T10:26:00.000-05:00I like the idea of this solution, because the trut...I like the idea of this solution, because the truth is, the state of the Shidduch world is terrible and something needs to be done. But I agree with SuperRaizy...it's not very realistic. Going into a marriage with two different levels of observance is, IMHO, a recipe for disaster. I think that religious observance is one of the most important areas of compatibility in marriage. At least it is if one of the people in the relationship is frum, because really, for a frum person, every facet of life is dictated by halacha (translation: laws of the Torah. Everything from what school to send to, to what to do on a Saturday night. (Movie? No Movie?)Plus, we all know that raising Orthodox kids these days is not what it used to be, and going to school and learning things one way and then coming home and seeing Mommy do it one way and Daddy do it a totally different way can be very, very confusing.Shoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13085648573425127432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-27395227719968004182008-07-14T08:40:00.000-05:002008-07-14T08:40:00.000-05:00Yeah, all that talk and agreeing during the dating...Yeah, all that talk and agreeing during the dating is forgotten by noon on a 24 hour fast day. No food, no water, no good. <BR/><BR/>And you don't want your kids to see your partner prematurely break a fast, for example, or not fast, or Little Joey will be confused. And fasting is only one of the potential breaches of contract with You Know Who.<BR/><BR/>But he's here, this kid.<BR/>And he'll have free will, and assuming the marital conflict is manageable, the problem solving mature, who knows how he'll decide to live his life?<BR/><BR/>Disneyland. I know. Buy me tickets.therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-76228883583915038272008-07-14T07:53:00.000-05:002008-07-14T07:53:00.000-05:00It's a lovely theory, but it's not very workable. ...It's a lovely theory, but it's not very workable. It is extremely difficult for a married couple, living in the same house, to observe two different levels of Halacha (Jewish law). Once you have children, it becomes nearly impossible, due to the need to teach the children about religious observance. <BR/>And so a religious girl who marries a non-or less- religious man faces two possibilities: lower her standards of observance to meet his, or hope his standards rise to meet hers (which is never a sure bet, because he might be drawn to "the emotional pull of an ancient, yet ageless culture", but the practical aspects of observing Halacha daily are very difficult and burdensome). <BR/>Leora's idea of a frum girl marrying a ba'al teshuva guy is a lot more workable, because he has already committed to the religious lifestyle and is actively living it.SuperRaizyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06742653185025562286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-52880607136899665432008-07-14T07:31:00.000-05:002008-07-14T07:31:00.000-05:00I'm not saying, by the way, that there's anything ...I'm not saying, by the way, that there's anything wrong with long skirts. <BR/><BR/>Years ago a patient who was terminating after several months of therapy for himself and his son. <BR/><BR/>He said, Therapydoc, what's with the long skirts?<BR/><BR/>I smiled and said, "It's been a pleasure, treating you and your son. Call me if you need me."therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-13644888823911469992008-07-14T07:04:00.000-05:002008-07-14T07:04:00.000-05:00Thanks, Leora. Definition time:For the benefit of...Thanks, Leora. <BR/><BR/>Definition time:<BR/><BR/>For the benefit of readers who have no idea what she's talking about, and according to my post that means many of you, (most Jewish people, even, don't know the meaning of a phrase like <EM>Ba'al Tshuva</EM>), <BR/><BR/><EM>Ba'al Tshuva</EM> is a complicated concept, but most people use it to refer to a person who returns, meaning has found Judaism Orthodox-style, and likes it, takes to it from the heart. <BR/><BR/>That person becomes <EM>frum</EM> . <BR/><BR/><EM>Frum</EM> tends to mean observant. <BR/><BR/>A person born <EM>frum</EM> is referred to as <EM>frum from birth</EM> or an FFB, meaning parents imparted the customs and laws in the mother's milk, so to speak.<BR/><BR/>An FFB has generally attended parochial Jewish schools, although patent leather shoes have never been considered a problem for Jewish kids because skirt lengths are so long that there's nowhere the shoes will reflect anywhere, except the sky, maybe.therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-35074608721763289582008-07-14T06:02:00.000-05:002008-07-14T06:02:00.000-05:00Good post. You present the issue well. Look forwa...Good post. You present the issue well. Look forward to reading the other comments.<BR/><BR/>FYI, some relatives who were recently married via the shidduch system are madly in love. So sometimes it works REALLY well. <BR/><BR/>Sometimes a BT (Ba'al Tshuva) and FFB (frum from birth) combo in a relationship works really well, so your idea has possibilities. But I doubt the very frum world will go for it.Leorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12303493764579879710noreply@blogger.com