tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post8814988869975057075..comments2024-03-14T03:16:23.482-05:00Comments on Everyone Needs Therapy: How to Save a Lifetherapydochttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-67270928952313599102013-06-23T06:09:48.984-05:002013-06-23T06:09:48.984-05:00After reading your sorrowful post,I feel so sorry ...After reading your sorrowful post,I feel so sorry for you. I realized so many things like how I deal with people. I should be the source of positive energy, not negativity. I should encourage them more, not discourage.Samual Minorhttp://www.growtallfaster.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-17623004949123026632011-08-29T00:13:03.386-05:002011-08-29T00:13:03.386-05:00Don't be sorry, these are amazing comments. I...Don't be sorry, these are amazing comments. I think you're going to appreciate my next post. Not only are you more resilient, but it's also likely (and this is going to be super important as a family physician) that you'll be even BETTER in a crisis than your "normal" colleagues. Thanks so much for sharing this experience. That first doc just didn't get it. When people don't know how to help, it's not unusual that they blame the victim. Another, Wish I could'a said. . .therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-39393305061827032702011-08-28T10:38:19.432-05:002011-08-28T10:38:19.432-05:00So what do we do? I for one am working on changin...So what do we do? I for one am working on changing the culture of my med school bit by bit. It's like turning the titanic around, but the first "coup" has been staged with many more to come. Even though it may not make any difference, I have to try, because it breaks my heart that those who devote their lives to helping other people are not met with the same compassion and empathy from their colleagues that they show their patients. Sometimes it feels like a drop in the bucket. <br /><br />One afternoon I was sent to my PCPs office by another clinician because of complications from a medication I was taking. After revealing to my PCP why I was there and the story behind my taking an antidepressant (years of genetically loaded depression) she said to me: "and you came to medical school knowing this about yourself? That you had these problems?" Yes, yes I did. I applied and arrived fully aware I have a chronic illness and pro-actively signed myself up for a psychiatrist to manage medication with me and (I'll admit, once forced by my psychiatrist...sometimes I'm a little slow on the uptake and have had some not so good experiences with under-trained therapists :P ) a competent therapist to manage life and to learn new skills from and I will be a better, more empathic, healthier doctor because of what I have faced in my life. Nothing builds empathy like a little suffering. :) As a result I am likely healthier than a lot of my classmates. <br /><br />But that moment changed my own feelings about my disease in the context of my new profession. If I had any question before (which I really didn't, I had lived in shame of my depression for years already) I now knew for sure that I had to keep it a secret because I will be judged harshly and fellow physicians may question my competence. At least while I am a baby physician who has yet to prove herself. I had always kept my diagnosis a secret from everyone but the ones very closest to me (for whom I am un-endingly grateful), but now a more panicked fear infiltrated my secrets. Suddenly I became scared someone would find out, and when I had my own run in with suicidal ideation a year later I was terrified to tell the school psychiatrist lest he tell my school and they suspend me from the very thing that gives so much meaning and joy to my life. Turns out confidentiality is a good thing, and having a therapist I trust who is aggressive and awesome is also a very good thing. Because of her and some hard work healing is happening. <br /><br />A year later I found a new PCP and up front told her that if she couldn't handle the fact that I had a very well controlled chronic illness that I am managing appropriately while being in medical school then I will go elsewhere. Luckily I haven't had to. Turns out not all physicians turn on each other in judgement (thank goodness!).<br /><br />So thanks again for your post. When I'm alone late one night and a friend or colleague calls for help, I hope to remember your words and remember how to save their life.<br /><br />(sorry it's so long! I don't often have a place to share about this stuff...)Medkidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844231660013945062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-51272538280221946132011-08-28T10:37:30.695-05:002011-08-28T10:37:30.695-05:00Thanks so much for your post! I'm totally goi...Thanks so much for your post! I'm totally going to print it out and put it in my binder of important stuff for my future practice. I'm months away from getting my MD, but it's not actually for my patients I would print this as a reminder for (though patients do walk into family practices suicidal all the time, but for that I have been trained) but it's for my colleagues and myself as the malignant side of the culture of medicine attempts to eat us alive. <br /><br />My psychiatry attending always tells the story of a 3rd year medical student a few years back at my school who chose tricyclic antidepressants to end her life. His face goes grave as he says "and you know, it is so hard because we know she was serious. She knew what a TCA overdose would do." And we'd all shift uncomfortably on the cushy leather sectional sofa in his office (seriously the man had a stereotypical freudian sofa, it was awesome!) or in the lecture hall thinking about ourselves and our friends as he hits close to home. That was his objective I think. A not so subtle warning to watch ourselves and our friends. <br /><br />My mentor tells another story. He only does surgery locum tenums these days and devotes most of his time to helping hospitals and physicians communicate with each other among other things. He recently gave a talk to about 60+ physicians. He opened his lecture by asking "how many of you know of or have had a physician colleague commit suicide." Every single hand in the room went up. <br /><br />So I watch out carefully for warning signs of depression in myself and my colleagues. Because there were enough nights in the last 3.5 years when friends called me from across campus in a panic telling me they had to take another colleague to the behavioral health ER and they just didn't want to feel so alone doing it, or my roommate instructing me we had to now lock our interior door because another classmate was homicidal and suicidal, enough conversations when stress was reaching its peak being met with blunted affects and withdrawn behaviors. There are enough days when I get emails from other colleagues asking me for referrals to therapist (I have had a therapist for 2 years in med school and a small network within my class knows I'll refer other classmates when needed...). Enough papers have shown the depression and suicide attempts among med students to be higher than the average person of the same age. I'm glad they reach out. Even though most of my classmates are afraid to go to the school psychiatrist for help, I'm glad they are coming somewhere to get hooked in with a therapist. But my greatest fear is not for those classmates who reach out or who have friends who will reach out for them, but for those who don't. <br /><br />We are trained in an old school, old boys network attitude of "physician heal thyself". Depression, self harm, suicidal ideation, hidden addictions are seen as major weaknesses and flaws of character and competence. It is enough that every day we feel incompetent as we train towards being a doctor, but depression adds insult to injury. This attitude is part of the reason why physicians have the highest suicide rate of people with equal training (seen here: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-narcissus-in-all-us/200908/the-occupation-the-highest-suicide-rate).Medkidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844231660013945062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-27818722573279695402011-08-23T13:39:15.067-05:002011-08-23T13:39:15.067-05:00Rambling is a good thing, no? As long as you don&...Rambling is a good thing, no? As long as you don't lose the message in the pop-up. Thanks for the comment(s). They're fantastic.therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-16592454937030735382011-08-23T07:42:19.381-05:002011-08-23T07:42:19.381-05:00It's not a fun call to make. I had a friend w...It's not a fun call to make. I had a friend who said she was going to kill herself. I tried to convince her to call the helpline (we were college students, and our campus has a hotline any time the counseling service is closed). She wouldn't. She refused to talk to anyone. So, while her sister stayed with her, I walked around the corner and made the call. She was FURIOUS. She ran out of the building (leaving her shoes and purse behind). Her sister chased her, and I lost both of them. I stayed on the phone with the helpline until I found them, with the University police. (I called back later to say everything was OK, as the volunteer asked me to). The police took her to the hospital, got statements from everyone involved. The girl was extremely bright, though, and knew how to manipulate the busy residents in the emergency room. She said everything she was supposed to, said she was fine. They let her go. I think she signed a no-suicide contract, but I can't remember at this point (about 18 months later--I still remember the day, what I was doing, what I was wearing...) She was released from the ER just a few hours later, back to her sister. At that point, there was nothing I could do except hope and be there for support. All night, someone was up, watching her, but the next day we got separated during classes and the like, which was very scary. Her sister and I had lunch, talking about how afraid we were. The girl got back into counseling through the university (she had terminated a few weeks before this incident). She saw a psychiatrist, as well. Not too long after, she terminated therapy again. However, she is OK. She lived through that night, and the nerve-wracking days after it. I nearly failed an exam the next morning (I can't believe I passed at all!), but earned an A in the class anyway (barely--and my own counselor had supported my plan to explain the situation to the professor if I did not end up earning the A, but was close). I still remember the fear, the tension, the anxiety. The walk to the police car to make a statement, the panicked texts to her sister throughout the evening. But she made it. We did what we could, and had help from others, and she pulled through. I'm very glad I made the phone call (logically, she would have run anyway at some point, since we were trying to talk her out of committing suicide anyway), but it was DEFINITELY not an easy call to make. Nothing that night was easy, but if I could go back in time, I'd do it all again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-16283757931362064652011-08-23T06:26:33.701-05:002011-08-23T06:26:33.701-05:00Thank you for this. Written from your gut and hea...Thank you for this. Written from your gut and heart. <br /><br />I know what it is to lose almost everything in late middle age--including my health and the ability to work--and to live with the Sword of Damocles hanging by a hair over what little is left--the result of wrongdoing on the part of a once deeply trusted professional. <br /><br />To face catastrophe alone, with no family. Friends having turned away--because they don't know what to say. Or go into 'blame the victim' mode, judgement, minimization, comparative suffering--in order feel comfortable. The Just World Fallacy. And the worst, gossiping....<br /><br />I am still here because of two deeply loved animals--a horse and a dog. I will hold them close to me as long as I possibly can.<br /><br />I practice mindfulness meditation daily. I write. I practice self compassion and dropping into and openeing my heart. I visualize grounding and centering, owning my force field. And when I am lost, I try very hard to find my way back.<br /><br />I have a connection with a teacher of mediation who empathizes and genuinely cares. Sometimes, having just one person....<br /><br />I walk away from toxic people. I set boundaries. I am learning the difference between being 'nice' and being 'kind'. I have become fierce.<br /><br />And I get out and engage in superficial social banter with waiters in cafes and clerks in shops.<br />Dog lovers stop me on the street to meet my lovely pooch. People who know nothing about my trauma--it's better that way. But I do establish transient connections with others.<br /><br />What has not helped--traditional talk therapy. Therapists who do not understand or have experience with trauma. Anti-depressant medication--I am very sensitive to drugs and the side effects are <br />worse than grieving so much loss. Being threatened with hospitalization--that will only make worse my dire economic situation, which is the source of my despair. <br /><br />I very clearly have PTSD related to what happened, on top of an abusive childhood. Complex PTSD, I think they call it. Nightmares, panic attacks, crippling anxiety, avoidance, intrusive thoughts, hyper-arousal, increased startle, the sense of a fore-shortened future, sensitivity to triggers.<br /><br />What keeps me "stuck"--my inability to work, due to my health, having no financial safety net if/when the other shoe falls, losing my home, the very real fear of losing my beloved pets who keep me here. <br /><br />The truth is there is no "fix". I am a determined, smart, resourceful person who has tried everything possible to resolve this catastrophe. <br /><br />When the other shoe drops, I will fall through the cracks, and into disaster. I pray for miracles that never come. I even stood up for myself in court, but the wrong-doer lied his way out of responsibility, putting me on trial instead, much as is done to the victim of rape A total travesty of justice.<br /><br />Which pushed my PTSD symptoms over the top.<br /><br />It is a very hard thing to live without hope. But I am still here. I want very much to live. I search every day for rays of hope in small things. Some days are spent in denial, when I convince myself all will turn out somehow. And then reality intrudes, denial falls away, and I realize my 'good day' was created out of delusion.<br /><br />I totally understand why someone under extreme circumstances would act to end excruciating and endless pain, and save their dignity. <br /><br />In the award winning German film, The Lives of Others, a character ends his life. His note said, "Suicide is the end of all hope". He was an artist, a writer--the totalitarian state had taken everything that held meaning from him. They banned his art, destroying his identity, his purpose.<br /><br />I believe that an abusive, evil person or institution can drive a vulnerable person over the edge. When does suicide become homicide?<br /><br />I sorta wrote a lot as well. Stuff I do not generally say. But spoken from my gut and heart as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-6700532960984816282011-08-09T09:36:33.656-05:002011-08-09T09:36:33.656-05:00Wow, this is a truly inspiring post. In fact, I am...Wow, this is a truly inspiring post. In fact, I am very familiar with The Fray and my perception of that song has forever been changed. Great article on calling for therapy and "how to save a life".Mental Health Specialisthttp://www.callfortherapy.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-313235283737909662009-08-31T15:18:11.437-05:002009-08-31T15:18:11.437-05:00I'm still always surprised when I hear a story...I'm still always surprised when I hear a story like this, the nice guy, wanted to thank him, gone.therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-86885646469496990102009-08-31T13:20:18.578-05:002009-08-31T13:20:18.578-05:00I am so glad to hear someone talk about this song....I am so glad to hear someone talk about this song. It's an excellent post. <br /><br />I heard it on the radio on the way to work this morning, and thought again about your post and your blog. <br /><br />My 40th high school reunion was this past weekend. There was a boy in my class who, unbidden, did two incredibly special and sweet things for me in high school, and I've looked for him for years to tell him how much they meant to me.<br />This weekend someone told me he'd committed suicide when he was 25 or 26.<br /><br />The waste of it, the waste of such a valuable life, staggers me now. <br /><br />Even after all these decades I find myself wondering if there was something I should have recognized, something I should have done or said -- even though we barely knew one another. <br /><br />But that was before Prozac and being socially allowed to talk about depression. Things are so much better now for people who suffer with mental illness. Even rock songs demand we talk about it now. ;-)Scritches.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00888201072541904299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-24139869212715017422009-02-28T18:24:00.000-06:002009-02-28T18:24:00.000-06:00Oh, I have to blow that one up and post it in my o...Oh, I have to blow that one up and post it in my office! Thanks.therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-75927712168568711442009-02-27T18:50:00.000-06:002009-02-27T18:50:00.000-06:00I know you have no shortage of songs to blog about...I know you have no shortage of songs to blog about, but I heard a new one today by Tim McGraw called Nothin' to Die For... made me think of this post.<BR/><BR/>Here are some of the lyrics:<BR/><BR/>Stopped to have a few at five now you’re crossing that center line for the third time<BR/>Second time like this this week had a friend ask you for your keys<BR/>You said ‘no I’m fine’<BR/>You sure do act like you don’t got a thing to lose<BR/>But every car you pass might be the one’s you take with you<BR/><BR/>{Chorus}<BR/>You’d give your last breath to your wife<BR/>Take a bullet for your kids<BR/>Lay your life down for your country for your Jesus for your friends<BR/>There’s a whole lot of things you say you’re living for<BR/>You’ve got to fight it somehow, stop and turn around<BR/>‘Cause this ain’t nothin’ to die for<BR/><BR/>So what’s the harm in a little fun<BR/>‘Cause you’re off to work before the sun everyday<BR/>And the inbox outbox locks you in and the money you make ain’t worth the time you spend to make your pay<BR/>The doctor says ‘man your numbers they don’t lie’<BR/>The graveyard’s full of folks that didn’t have time to dieJackiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17472517428832152273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-75697092739698360592009-02-26T23:36:00.000-06:002009-02-26T23:36:00.000-06:00Wonderful post and thanks. I have watched so many ...Wonderful post and thanks. I have watched so many of my friends go back to using and die. Some commit suicide directly; others do it on the installment plan. I love the song, BTW. It's on my I-pod.twodogsblogginghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13880551498311725249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-63851545421199832422009-02-20T11:21:00.000-06:002009-02-20T11:21:00.000-06:00I can see this in two perspectives. I found my sis...I can see this in two perspectives. I found my sister on the bathroom floor after swallowing a bottle of pills. Did not understand why she did it and why we had no idea about her having a hard time.<BR/><BR/>I wanted to kill myself in November after the prospect of healing was just too much. I didn't tell anyone because I was worried about what would happen. I finally understood. <BR/><BR/>This post is so wonderfully delivered. Thank you for your wisdom.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952500756645034418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-55541397321173553332009-02-20T07:41:00.000-06:002009-02-20T07:41:00.000-06:00Oh, no, I didn't think you were. I agree. I mean, ...Oh, no, I didn't think you were. <BR/><BR/>I agree. I mean, it seems hopeless because it *is* hopeless... once someone makes that decision they don't just snap out of it. <BR/><BR/>I think maybe part of the difficulty for an observer is letting someone be that hopeless if they have to be. That's not so easy to sit with 'eh. Sure I don't have to tell you that. LOL<BR/><BR/>But yes, yes, yes! Call help. Watch 'em like a hawk. Remove/hide sharp things and meds if you can.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-40947498467659644352009-02-19T05:52:00.000-06:002009-02-19T05:52:00.000-06:00Please understand that I'm not trying to minimize ...Please understand that I'm not trying to minimize psychopathology. People who survive suicide attempts will tell you that they are in a hole that they cannot see getting out of, ever. They really aren't in a place you can cajole, joke, encourage, advise, or coax out of. The mood is unshakable.<BR/><BR/>That's why I tell people, don't bother with advice, don't bother with criticism, don't bother with talk, really. Be there as a policeman, basically, making sure nothing bad happens, because sure as rain, it will.<BR/><BR/>and you don't want it on your head, not that you would be to blame, but you would do it anyways, blame yourself. <BR/><BR/>Therefore, 911.therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-15107536469512332892009-02-19T03:13:00.000-06:002009-02-19T03:13:00.000-06:00Wow, Doc. Serious clarity and impact right there.H...Wow, Doc. Serious clarity and impact right there.<BR/><BR/>Having been there and done that, so to speak, several times I really get this one. But it sure feels good to hear someone who knows a thing or two say that yes, that is a good path to take...<BR/><BR/>Because when you're faced with someone struggling like that you sure do wonder.<BR/><BR/>Be present 'eh. I like it :) I wonder if there's much more we can give each other when we confront death so closely?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-43374800275660920602009-02-18T23:23:00.000-06:002009-02-18T23:23:00.000-06:00You see? That's exactly why we have to stop peopl...You see? That's exactly why we have to stop people from doing this, taking their own lives.<BR/><BR/>There's a self-fulfilling prophesy, this ridiculous notion that because others in the family did it, you have to or you will, too.<BR/><BR/>And everything you have to offer others, everything you have to teach, to give, poof. <BR/><BR/>I don't see it this way. I'm not giving you personal advice, Caroline, you know I can't, but people develop all kinds of new skills, new aptitudes, new trajectories in life. <BR/><BR/>As Dr. Seuss used to say, <BR/><BR/>Oh, the Places You'll Go.<BR/><BR/>Or Woody Allen would say, All the Movies You'll See! <BR/><BR/>Or as therapydoc is forever saying, A permanent solution to a temporary problem? <EM> Feh!</EM>therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-49323094514168816672009-02-18T22:42:00.000-06:002009-02-18T22:42:00.000-06:00this post has had a powerful impact on me - i have...this post has had a powerful impact on me - i have come back to this post over and over again. and the song by The Fray has played constantly in my head. i come from a large family that has strong history of mental illness and attempted suicides. i have struggled most of my adult life with depression, but through work in therapy i have been able to find a good place for myself in my early 30s. i have broken the cycle of addiction and denial of mental illness. i am successful in my job and have an advanced degree. but no matter the amount of therapy, or the work i put in, or the success i achieve, i have a belief that some day i will take will own life, that is my legacy. i know that i have control over that action and that it is irrational, but it is a belief that i have not yet been able to change. <BR/><BR/>thank you for this post and for all your other posts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-7001066943414229652009-02-18T08:24:00.000-06:002009-02-18T08:24:00.000-06:00My therapist said "you know, it won't always be th...My therapist said "you know, it won't always be this difficult." I knew she was right. Hope deferred makes the heart sick, as the good book says. Perspective helps a lot. Good post.nashbabehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05854830457537986703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-16283417434455501982009-02-17T21:38:00.000-06:002009-02-17T21:38:00.000-06:00I have the best readers on the internet. Hands do...I have the best readers on the internet. Hands down.therapydochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088184676439578876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-5076522146058824012009-02-17T21:15:00.000-06:002009-02-17T21:15:00.000-06:00hey therapy doc--I saved a life the other day when...hey therapy doc--I saved a life the other day when i was talking to one of my tutoree's mom and she was telling me how manic/depressed she was so I gave her the number of my doctor and she is going tomarrow to be helped---is that exciting! She is going in the morning and i in the afternoon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-61882904690622839872009-02-17T20:51:00.000-06:002009-02-17T20:51:00.000-06:00I used to think that suicide was so incredibly "se...I used to think that suicide was so incredibly "selfish". That anyone that committed suicide was just out to hurt those that were left behind. Thankfully, I have grown older and a bit wiser, a bit kinder. And, I've gone through a lot of pain (more than others, not as much as most). I see now that it is all about pain. Their pain. Their feeling that they cannot possibly resolve that pain. I have seen people through more than one night since my young "they should get over themselves" years. And I am always glad that my shoulders "seem" strong, even when I am quivering inside and sure that I am gonna screw this up...<BR/><BR/>At the end of the day, though, it's not about me, is it? It isn't about whether I am strong enough to be there for them. It is about their need to have another human being care enough about them to just BE with them. It is about being there for another person, always, through the darkest moments. Steadfast. Loyal. Sure. Unafraid. Be that for them, until they can learn to be (want to be) that for themselves. <BR/><BR/>Or, like you say, call 911. Either way, you save a life. Please, let me always be able to help my friends in pain. It is the least I can do as I have been given such a gift. I have suffered (again, more than others, not as much as some) and I have come through the other side to know that it ALWAYS passes. It ALWAYS changes - for good or for ill. It is never dire enough for suicide, no matter what - because we can start every day over again at ANY point. <BR/><BR/>Sorry to ramble on - but wow...that post hit home. Thanks, as always, for writing.porcini66https://www.blogger.com/profile/00547909036887434734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-9452432024456582222009-02-17T16:21:00.000-06:002009-02-17T16:21:00.000-06:00Beautiful post. My Daddy committed suicide when I ...Beautiful post. My Daddy committed suicide when I was 14. We did not have the hindsight that so many have. It hit us out of no where. His depression was shortlived , but severedecieving ..and fatal. <BR/><BR/>I recently put distance between a friend who frequently yells suicide. Till I reailzed the docs aren't admitting her ... when she supposedly calls 911 they 'do nothing' (then she's not calling 911!) and that it was being used to manipulate me ... and to keep me close ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27072566.post-61130641163255053222009-02-17T10:33:00.000-06:002009-02-17T10:33:00.000-06:00Thanks for the post. This is really good advice. I...Thanks for the post. This is really good advice. I would hope that I could see the signs. I think that many people don't think that someone will actually kill themselves. It's foreign to our nature. But it does happen and it is real. Great post.Sydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05642843245634635843noreply@blogger.com