I wanted to move on, to talk about failure, but then I get this comment on the last post. It's about failure, but not exactly the failure I had in mind, and not being a failure, but fearing failure. You're not exactly a representative sample, not if you read me, but still. What do you think?
The comment is in response to my hard stand about taking Viagra for anxiety that's situational: a young woman expects a good sexual performance very early into a relationship, maybe even the first date. And a young man wants to rise to the occasion. PRESSURE.
Mr.P and Vitamin V said...
Doc,
1st of all, I'm a huge fan!!!
Let me represent Mr. P and Vitamin V for a moment..
I can tell you that very often by the 3rd date, if the man hasn't made some sort of sexual "move", the woman gets insecure and feels that something is wrong with her..And trust me, talking about how wonderful she is and saying that I like to take things a little slower does not work at all..
She wants something to happen!! Granted, I'm not complaining about that, but if something is going to happen, I like to insure that it actually happens..Without Viagra early in the dating process, my anxieties often take control and make things not work properly..
And oh my goodness, if it doesn't work, she either feels that she's not attractive OR she thinks something is wrong with me...It's not necessarily about her achieving an orgasm, it's more about showing her that I like her and I'm attracted to her. It doesn't have to be spectacular the 1st, 2nd or 3rd time, etc..It just has to happen...As things progress and I feel more comfortable, I don't need the V..
And your description of the healthy relationship is what I would love to achieve..I guess what I'm trying to say is that early in a relationship, words don't seem to have as much of an impact..They're not believed as much as they should be...Later on, words mean more..And one more thing, Doc!! I don't see 2 women for every man out there.
February 11, 2010 10:59 AM
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Journal-1
BringThemHome-the hostages in Gaza-NOW Journals tend to begin with a journey, like a vacation, or maybe a change in life circumstance. A mov...
-
You may have heard this TherapyDoc aphorism. Write it. Don't send it. See, we can be talking about something (you will, that is, while ... -
Okay, people. If you've been reading me thus far you probably get that the sort of thing I referred to in the last co-dependent post inf...
-
ARTIST: Alan Jay Lerner and Frederick Loewe TITLE: I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face Lyrics and Chords [ Cdim7 = ; Edim7 = ; E+ = ] / C...
30 comments:
from a woman's perspective....
i have to say that i am positive that there are LOADS of women out there who would LOVE to take things slower. most of the women i know, including myself, have not been in a rush to be intimate. so many diseases, ex-partners, no comfort asking about sexual history yet, no rhythm yet to feel as though there is the potential for a relationship.
i would say this young (?) man is buying into all the media pressure.
i say enjoy taking it slow -- how else are you going to know the woman is right for you? the expectations out there are NOT what you think. i promise.
best wishes,
lynette
p.s. therapydoc, i am right with you on viagra. what kills me is that it is covered by most insurance carriers. wouldn't mind seeing those insurance providers cover female-specific products...
What a shame dating and getting to know someone isn't about seeing if this is someone to spend your life with, it is more about having sex, with or without orgasm. Hmmm. I am so glad I am married. The times I wasn't married I didn't have a problem meeting men, the problem was I wanted men who could carry on conversations and who had varied interests. Most of the men I met were so into sports, that and their jobs were all they could discuss. I
feel sorry for the young(ish) couples who reach out to each other today with the pressure of performing as that is proof of their interest in each other. Why are they so undernourished emotionally that they need that kind of attention, and why do they buy into the media/social fiction of what attraction and love really is? I personally can't relate to the 3rd date syndrome. Whatever happened to the getting to know each other and being honest when you know you wouldn't want to spend your life with the person and wish each other well and move on? When there is a connection for both of them, why does sex have to be in the forefront in the beginning? It is more like they have to get it out of the way so they can get to know each other. The intimacy comes first????
A young co worker of mine told me yesterday that she is breaking up with a new beau because he won't even attempt "1st base". She said he has spent the night when they've come home late but still - no 1st base. She is a nice girl, but critical and very judgmental of things - and verbal. Yes, I can see where he might have some anxiety - sheese! Anyway, I tried to tell her that he may be concerned about her reputation. My age and my way of thinking about no sex until there is marriage betrayed me, let me down. She told me that if there is no sex before commitment, what is there to ... wait for it... ... base commitment on.
I closed my mouth and am still stunned at the attitude of her generation. My daughter is her age...
Failure? It's not sex these young people are failing at it's relationships and commitment. They aren't dating, they're mating. Too bad they can't see the difference. [steps off of soap box, turns and exits thru small door] :)
It's not easy, because sometimes, even in my marriage, sex is not about connecting to my soul mate. Sometimes it's about shedding stress and worry through physical release.
Many singles have just as much stress as I do in daily life, plus the stress of not having a life partner and not feeling "chosen". Since they are not having sex regularly, I understand why they might jump into it.
i'm married and have not had sex in 10 years plus. (bad marriage, long story, slow decision-maker).
i still would not jump into it.... a man would need to reach my brain before he reaches for my body.
Oy.
I have a man that I am deeply in love with, have been for almost eight years now and we have a 3.5 year old son.
The first time we attempted to have sex, it didn't happen...mostly due to his nerves. Guess what? It didn't matter to me...
Kel
Amiable fill someone in on and this enter helped me alot in my college assignement. Thank you for your information.
Well, I agree with the part about actions speak louder than words. But the act of sex alone does nothing to convince me that someone cares about me. It is all of the other things that matter, to me. Phone calls, emails, neck rubs, smiles, laughter. I have to be connected emotionally long before I want to connect sexually.
But, I'm old.
I really have a hard time accepting that a 20 or 30-something single guy needs Viagra to get an erection with a girl he really likes (not withstanding some other physical/mental health concern - too much internet porn, perhaps?).
Straight guys all seem to be led around in life by their libidos, trying to get laid or at least leaving that impression. SO, I have always felt pressured by Mr P's insistence on getting what he wants. Even after 10 yr of marriage.
So, that there is ONE guy who is feeling dominated by, intimidated by, the voracious sexual needs of women....well, it's about time the table was turned in one case.
Is this why we have fantasies about our therapists, because they listen to us, let us talk, we communicate and work out the ruptures, we set aside a special time for each other every week -- romantic and sexual fantasies even though we NEVER touch, beyond a handshake?
This is the body
telling the brain
that this is the wrong time
and/or the wrong person.
That this is the time
to instead LISTEN,
not take drugs...!
And learn. And grow. And evolve.
Without the sex.
Wait...for goodness sakes!
Protect yourself.
So you can someday
protect the right girl.
@ Isle Dance - wow, well said!!! And maybe it's not a girl after all, maybe it's a guy.
Straight guys all seem to be led around in life by their libidos, trying to get laid or at least leaving that impression.
I don't know how much truth there is in that.
Jack, would be happy to hear more of your thoughts on this.
Should it be limited to just single straight guys? Tell me about your friend Jimmy, what is he looking for when he's out at a club, knocked back a few shots? TD says it's about communication, is that what he's after?
Someone please prove my theory wrong!
I have been married quite a number of years, but I do think that taking things slowly and getting to know the person first is a better idea than having sex immediately. The buildup seems intriguing and interesting and that even happens to us who have been married. We aren't ever too old for romance. That seems to have been replaced these days with just sex.
OT: Do you ever blog about work issues? I couldn't find anything. You know, having to deal closely with really sick and/or toxic people and still trying so hard to retain some shred of self-esteem. It's a bad time to find another job, plus I'm 58, which is considered ancient and unhireable in today's market. It's so easy to say "don't worry about it" or "just let it go," but it isn't that easy in real life when you have to be face to face with toxic people. It would be great to quit and go do "what you love," but I have to pay bills and the mortgage company doesn't take "love."
I'll get back to everyone next week, sorry.
Will explain then.
Thinking of you,
therapydoc
So much good stuff on this thread...
@Isle Dance - you hit the nail squarely on the head...I couldn't have said it better - bravo!
@Ivory...I've always been a football fan...what exactly is 1st base? There's 1st base, 2nd base, 3rd base, and let's say home-run (which in my book would be be sexual intercourse)
@Ella -read Anon (Kel) February 12, 2010 6:12 PM
"The first time we attempted to have sex, it didn't happen...mostly due to his nerves."
It's called performance anxiety.
In regards to your posts...hey, you know what Ella, you aren't worth the time to delineate and elucidate your inverse crainorectomy
this is totally off subject, but I'm not sure where else to ask this question? How do you know when it's time to refer a client elsewhere? I've been working with a DID client for two years. Over the last 6 months she has regressed, and can't seem to rally back. She has therapy with me twice weekly, and still needs extra phone calls in between. My verdict is that she's just not capable of taking care of herself and needs a group home or some higher level of care. She's always been in some sort of placement unless she's been on the street. I'm exhausted but don't want to abandon her.
Lisa, maybe totally weird for me to respond to you but DID is one of the diagnoses I carry and I've been referred around plenty. It hurts but I'm now so so glad that my last therapist stopped seeing me. I never would have been able to say- this isn't working. She did me a huge favor. The whole ominous high-level-of-care thing was being talked about but I've done really well since the referral.
Isle Dance's prose hits it to the core.
Sadly, the owner of Mr P doesn't understand that there are so, so many things that can be problematic in a sexual relationship that a little "vitamin" won't fix. If you're looking for a healthy relationship you're going to have to be able to carry the relationship on your own merit, with or without Mr P.
For real. Just one thing to think about- after a woman has a baby, she's medically advised to wait FOUR TO SIX WEEKS to have sex. How are you going to impress her then? I'll tell you how. You take the baby at 2am and let her get 20 minutes sleep. The character and strength it takes to do THAT can't be bought on the third date.
Sign me,
happily married 30-something
He's dating the wromg women.
Maybe that sounds flippant and maybe he doesn't care about a long term relationship but....it seems to me that if you want someone ready for a long term relationship then you want someone secure enough not to need the guy to try something right away. And you want someone who sees beyond the superficial to the person beneath.
Or maybe I'm old enough to be totally out of sync with how things are now...
My BFF vainly dated guys for a decade, no connection, no intimacy. Finally she accepted that she was not going to live like the person that her culture expected, her religion accepted. Instead she would be herself.
She and her female partner have been together 15 years. I joined them on one of their early dates, and the connection they had was electric. I thought, WOW, these two really LIKE each other!
This is what I mean, if you are dating the wrong gender it's going to be difficult or impossible to engage in intimate activities.
Post a Comment